Interview with Dr. Terrence Sejnowski

This video will be especially fun, because I have a chance now to interview my co-instructor, Dr. Terrence Sejnowski.

Terrence’s pioneering research in neural networks and computational neural science, have made him a living legend.

Dr. Sejnowski is an investigator at Howard Hughes medical institute, and the Francis Crick professor at the Salk Institute for Biological Studies where he directs the Computational Neurobiology Laboratory.

Above and beyond all of that Dr. Sejnowski is also in the elite group of only ten living scientists. To have been elected to all three of the national academies, in engineering, science, and medicine.

What I think perhaps is most impressive however is that Terry has also graduated more computational neural scientists, than any other scientist.

In some sense then, this makes Dr. Terrence Sinalski a leading father figure for the modern field of neuroscience.

The ultimate goal of Dr. Sejnowski’s research is to build linking principles, from brain to behavior using computational models.

Today, I’m going to ask Terry a few questions about how he learns. And how he thinks about learning, so that we all might get a better sense of how to improve our own learning.So what do you do to help yourself learn more easily, when you’re looking at something completely new?

Well I like to get into the thick of it. I don’t get much out of just going and reading a lot of books. And, when I was in Graduate School, I made a transition from Physics to Biology. And the way I did it was to get into a Biology lab. And get involved in experiments. And I, I’m a firm believer in learning by doing, and learning by osmosis from people who are experts.

How do you keep yourself paying attention, during something like a boring lecture?

I found that there isn’t, a simple way to keep yourself attending something that you’re not interested in.

But I have found a little trick to waylay the, the speaker, and that is by asking a question.

And the interruption often, gives rise to a discussion that is a lot more interesting.

And it actually follows the general principle which is that you learn more by active engagement rather than passive listening.

So, what do you do to get into and take advantage of diffuse mode thinking? I find that when I’m jogging, or out getting exercise, that it’s a wonderful way to get the mind disengaged, from the normal train of thought.

And I find that it’s very very possible to to sort of come up with new thoughts, new ideas. And it’s almost as if your brain goes into a new mode, you’re running along, things are passing you by.

And you start thinking about what’s happening.

For example, things that, that your brain has been working on, your out of conscious thoughts bubble to the surface. And often new ideas that are going to be then helpful to you later on.

The only problem I have is remembering all those great ideas. Because when I get back and take a shower, then a lot of them have evaporated. And that’s why I, I like to take a little notebook along with me, so I can take notes and remember what it is that I was thinking about.

So, do you multitask, or, or if you don’t, how do you resist the urge to multitask when you want to multitask?

Well, I wouldn’t survive if I didn’t multitask.

And most of my talking with students, listening to lectures, interacting with a lot of people who are passing through, visitors. There’s just a lot things that are bombarding you, email, texting any these are very important things that you want to do, but if you can’t juggle them, it’s hard to get through the day. However, I, I enjoy the evenings when the hubbub of the day quiets down, and I get a chance to go into a, a more reflective mode, and that’s when I actually get my best work done.

Do you do two things at the same time ever?

Well, you know, you can’t actually do two things, consciously, at the same time, because those will get mixed up.

It, its is possible with a lot of training, actually, to do two things at once, is, but it’s, it’s, you’re not doing it efficiently.

For me, multitasking is, is being able to switch back and forth, context switching from one topic to another.

And some people are better at that than others.

In other words sometimes takes a while to get into the swing of things if you’re in, in the middle of writing a paper.

For example it may take hours before you get to the point where you can actually be productive in area, actually able to get something accomplished.

But if, if, if you can you know after getting lay you know, into the middle of something switching from that to another task.

Is, is sometimes very difficult to do, if, if you’re, if, if you’re middle of something

But, I can do that very easily.

I can switch back and forth.

And I seem to be able to go back to the original task, and, and, and take up where I left off.

So, so that’s one way of, of accomplishing a lot and I get I have, fortunately I have a lot of very good students and helpers.

And enormously productive environment that I’m working in, so it’s been, it’s really a joy to be here.

How do you apply your knowledge of neuroscience, to your own learning?

Well, you know, I think there are many little ways that, I have applied what I’ve actually learned in the lab, and let me give you just one example to make it concrete.

One of my colleagues at the Salk Institute, Rusty Gage, made a very important discovery.

If you read the textbooks, it will tell you that all the neurons that you have in your brain you had a birth. And after birth, the wiring takes place and learning, and that changes at the, the connections between the neurons.

But the, but they’re the same old neurons that you had when you were born. Some die. You know, so there is shrinkage of your, of your cortex.

However, Rusty discovered that, in an important part of your brain for learning, and memory, the Hippocampus.

And which is located right in the middle here, of this model brain.

New neurons are being born, even in your adulthood.

And, this, this is very important for learning and memory.

It is obviously something that is very, very useful to be able to have new neurons.

Now here’s what we discovered together.

We discovered that.

If you have a animal, we use a, a rat as our model system.

And, if you give it an enriched environment, in which the rat is able to move around, and do things, and interact with other rats.

That, and then look in the hippocampus, you find that the hip, the, the strengths of the connections between the neurons, is much stronger there. It, it can be made by a factor of two, much stronger than in a rat that has been kept in a cage where there is impoverished environment. Now, and here’s now the, the key, okay so having an enriched environment is, is, is even as an adult is going to help you. Right?

Instead of locking yourself, a monk in the room you really want to be surrounded by other people who are stimulating you. And events that are happening that you can actively participate in, so, so that important.

Now here is something Rusty discovered which I think is incredibly important.

That in the absence of an enriched environment exercise will also increase the number of new neurons that are being born and survive. And, so I, am very, avid at running.

I’ve already mentioned that I get lots of good ideas when I run, but I also, know, that my brain is, helping me remember things, because of the fact that I have new neurons being born, and surviving in my hippocampus.

So that’s one of many examples that I can point to, in which what we’ve learned about neuroscientists, from neuroscience, has really changed the way I think and its a pity if you look at the way our, our new educational reforms and schools.

What do they cut out when they want to add a new, a, session for example learning something, for example, how to pass a test, right.

Tests are being given now to help assess, how well a student is doing and how well a school is doing. Well, it’s recess.

And what happens during a recess?

Exercise. It’s running around. It’s exactly what you need, what your brain needs.

It needs that moment of pause of, of using your muscles rather than your brain.

To be able to process that information and to, and, and get the neurons working on it.

So I think that this is, again something that is, should be a policy that we need to have our children out there running around.

Have there been any special techniques you’ve acquired over the years that help you focus, learn or create more effectively.

I find that, being in a, a creative environment, where other people, are, are creative is, is, is a way of, enhancing your own creativity.

I, I think that.

Although the image we have of the creative thinker as being isolated genius may be true of some people, it’s not true of me.

I really find that I have better ideas if I’m talking to somebody, and trying to explain to them my ideas.

Often, that process can, it boosts the creative process and the facts, I think that you know, having other people around to bounce your ideas off of is really for me a very, very important part of doing science.

How about test taking? Any special advice there?

Tests are like any other skill. You can learn them.

You can learn to be a better test taker.

And you have a lot of good ideas about that.

I’ve discovered that the what you need things to avoid, for example.

Don’t get hung up if you can’t answer a question.

Go on to the next, because you can always come back and in fact, often, the answer to the problem that was holding you back may actually pop in to your brain later on in the test.

This is how our brains work, things work along parallel tracks.

How do you approach your creative work in science?

How do you keep yourself creative in the face of the onslaught of more routine day by day tasks?

I’ve been very fortunate, because I have a great lab, and my students and colleagues, keep me young in terms of learning new things, looking at things with new perspectives.

So, I think that having youth around really is a, a great way to keep yourself youthful.

If you had any advice for a young high school or college student, about how to learn effectively, what would you say?

That success isn’t necessarily come by being smart.

I know a lot of smart people who are not successful.

But I know a lot of people, who are very, very passionate.

And persistent.

A lot of success in life is that passion and persistence, of really staying the course, staying working on it, and, not letting go.

Not giving up.

That’s really, I think the most important, quality that I see in students, that I work with, who are successful.

Terry, I cannot thank you enough, for your great answers, that I think people will find very helpful.

Wonderful, now I want to, this is, give a little intro here.

I’d like to introduce you to Francis Crick’s brain.

So, I first met Francis 30 years ago, and this brain was sitting in his office.

And, Francis was a close colleague of, I, moved here about 25 years ago, and got to know Francis much much better.

And one day, we were chatting, and Francis pointed out this brain that had been sitting there for decades and said Terry do you know that I just recently realized that this brain is much bigger than a real brain.

And in fact you could not fit this brain in my skull if you actually look at the relative sizes.

It’s, it’s, this is a teaching tool for medical students.

You know, you could take apart the different parts of the brain.

But isn’t it interesting that Francis Crick didn’t realize that until much, much later, when he actually looked at it with new eyes?

And so, you know, this is something about.

Learning with fresh new eyes.

Isn’t it extraordinary, even in a Nobel Prize winning discoverer of DNA.

Well, there are things to discover every day about things around us, ordinary things, that you just have to look at them with a different set of eyes and a different perspective.